Frustrated

[m14msgt]

This past weekend's Normandy battle was frustrating and annoying to say the least. I am not alone in my opinion that the lack of adequate signage showing CHG members where the allied encampment was located was inexcusible. I caused some damage to my vehicle driving over "hill & dale" trying to locate the campsite. For those of us who pay an annual dues, it is ridiculous to not expect some effort from the club, sponsoring unit(s) or whoever to post adequate and legible signage. Secondly, I believe I speak for most of the allied units when I state that the typical "Germans not taking their hits" song & dance is way past getting old. Ferril Fox even stated at line-up that "many drove a long way to play" and yet were likely frustrated when this occurred. Again, if CHG is going to charge folks money, it is not unreasonable to expect some modicum of professionalism in this organization.

[fox]

The lack of signage was my fault. I had originally scheduled Friday off of work to arrive early set up some large signs and was completely screwed and was scheduled a full work day with over time. We also had half of my unit drop out last minute for various reasons who could have set up signage.

The 82nd AB did their best with what they had to try and direct members in with the little signs they had but I understand these were less than obvious to spot due to their size.

I've arranged a weekend with the site manager to set up permanent signage on site for our club. This will eliminate the need to haul in materials and not have to rely anyone should they become unavailable with all the signs in their possession.

Again I take full responsibility for the lack of adequate signage and apologize for the inconvenience. With permanent signage on site, this will not be an issue in the future

[m14msgt]

Great to hear...thank you


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[rick]

May 11, 2014 8:44:21 GMT -8 m14msgt said:

This past weekend's Normandy battle was frustrating and annoying to say the least. I am not alone in my opinion that the lack of adequate signage showing CHG members where the allied encampment was located was inexcusible. I caused some damage to my vehicle driving over "hill & dale" trying to locate the campsite. For those of us who pay an annual dues, it is ridiculous to not expect some effort from the club, sponsoring unit(s) or whoever to post adequate and legible signage. Secondly, I believe I speak for most of the allied units when I state that the typical "Germans not taking their hits" song & dance is way past getting old. Ferril Fox even stated at line-up that "many drove a long way to play" and yet were likely frustrated when this occurred. Again, if CHG is going to charge folks money, it is not unreasonable to expect some modicum of professionalism in this organization.

Please try to keep in mind that the CHG is a volunteer organization. All club officers,board members etc....donate their time, sweat and tears for the betterment of our organization and the hobby as a whole. Occasionally and despite all the best intentions, something goes wrong. It's unfortunate; but, all too often, only a few people do the work while the majority get to enjoy other people's efforts.

Regarding hit taking, I've played both sides of the field and I can tell you it's a common perception shared by both sides. The reality is that some units and individuals are better than others at taking their hits. It's a visual game and even the best hit takers don't see things sometimes. You get tunnel vision and your awareness of what's going on around diminishes. Some battles are better than others...if we all focus on having a good time and minimize the fixation on hit taking, everyone will go home happy rather than frustrated.

[billyyank]

Since I no longer participate in reenactments, I can freely state the following- At the end of a CHG event, I was driving my POV past a large group of 101st new recruits being dressed down by a "NCO" in front of the 'veteran' 101st reenactors. The 'NCO' was yelling at the newbies: "How many times do I have to tell you? DON'T TAKE YOUR HITS FROM GERMANS!!" the newbies all saw that I was an axis reenactor, and their surprised expression caused the NCO to turn around and see me, causing them all to go quiet.

That was enough for me to substantiate all the rumours I had heard for years.

[grease101]

I have been in the 101 group for over twelve years and I never witnessed this occurrence. Can you be more specific about where and when this happened?
If anything the leadership tries to tell its recruits and veterans alike to play fair and be a good sportsman.

[Deleted]

When I was in the 101st (Unit XO 2008 & Previous), we never taught that. Chances are they were joking around, especially if the same attitudes still exist there. If anything we taught the opposite and if anyone on the other side refused to take a hit, just to fight through them and not squabble over it. This whole hit taking issue is ridiculous. You claim it was an "NCO" so it shouldn't be hard to figure out who and I expect it was taken out of context. You might address the unit leadership with the concerns first before starting a war here on the forum. This thread was about signage and the responsible parties owned up to it like men. I expect if the 101 did some misdeed, they would certainly own up to it as well.

[PRESIDENT]

May 30, 2014 18:04:15 GMT -8 @bullrider said:

You might address the unit leadership with the concerns first before starting a war here on the forum. This thread was about signage and the responsible parties owned up to it like men. I expect if the 101 did some misdeed, they would certainly own up to it as well.

Agreed, Bullrider.

There is no sense in developing an argument on this board, billyyank. While I'm certain you might have witnessed some bad hit-taking, which I know sucks, the better way to address it is directly to the unit leadership or to the Board Officers. I'm sure the same statement of bad hit-taking could be made about your unit (or former unit, if you're not reenacting anymore) as it has been made about my own unit. It happens, and some events are better than others. I've been accused of it a few times. Sometimes I'm just not aware of who's firing at me. I try and correct it once I figure it out or I'll make it up to them later by being one of the first to go down in another skirmish. One thing that will NOT correct the situation is calling people out on forums and in the field, or neglecting to even take their hits from certain units.

Hit-taking is only supposed to be a facilitator in what we're actually supposed to be doing out there in the field: learning how to use our uniforms and gear and to function as a well-trained, period correct unit. Becoming obsessed as to whether someone takes their hits or not detracts from this and turns these events merely into airsoft or paintball events.

m14msgt, We'll try to get better signs and maps out at future events. We do have them, but sometimes it's a matter of getting a proper hand-off. I like my members to know exactly where they're going! While we do find sometimes we come up short, I think the CHG is one of the most organized and informative clubs when it comes to events. And that's only possible by those who volunteer time and money to create signs and paperwork, and who arrive early and stay late to make sure events run smoothly. My hat is off to Fox, Rick, and many others who have lent their hand to running more just than one event year after year.

[m14msgt]

Fair enough...thank you


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[mayo]

I was in the 101st AB unit and I am the 82nd AB Unit Leader. I never heard anyone in the 101st say anything like that before unless they were joking around. I encourage my unit members to take hits unless the person who is shooting at them is obviously dead himself. We have had some incidents where the German reenactor ignored entire rifle squads shooting at them with multiple rounds from each squad member. I told my guys to ignore that person because they were ingoring "the spirit of the game." If we have problems with anyone taking hits, we go to their unit leader as we should. I agree, sometimes it's hard to tell who someone is shooting at. But that being said, for my guys, if there is any doubt, they are encouraged to take the hit. Blanks are expensive. We all need to not be so thin skinned and have some fun out there.

[21pzsoldat]

I have a sneaking suspicion that I may be one the "Germans not taking hits" that was complained of above. Now, please understand, I am always quite ready to drop down when any opponent gets a good shot at me AND I ACTUALLY KNOW I AM BEING SHOT AT. At the Normandy battle, on Saturday, while we Germans were hotly engaged in defending the initial ridge position, a GI suddenly came running across my front, blazing away at me with his .45. Now, most of his shots were through trees, so I ignored them, but he eventually came to a halt with a clear LOS between me and him, range about 50-60 feet. We both fired, him a split second before me. I had no issue with taking a hit there and was ready to take off my helmet, but the GI ripped off his own helmet, gave me a nasty, disgusted look, pointed at me, and yelled "THERE! I GOT YOU!" Then he stormed off. I took off my helmet, but was too stunned to ask him what had his drawers in such a wad. All I can think of is that this guy must have been popping off shots at me from somewhere outside my peripheral vision and got frustrated that I didn't drop. OK, but how would I know I am being shot at, with guns going off everywhere, unless I actually see the guy shooting at me? (In real war, bullets solve these sorts of issues - you know soon enough if someone has you in his sights.)

So, on the off-chance that the GI in question is one of the writers above, I offer the foregoing explanation (and apology, if he feels one is needed). In the 3 years I have been in WW2 reenacting, I have gone down so many times (even being shot whilst wearing my medic "red cross") that the dirt and I are on a first-name basis. But there are, no doubt, a number of cleverly concealed "snipers" who would attest that they nailed me, but I just strolled on. To those "marksmen" I also apologize. A disassociated "BANG!" in the woods, among many "BANGS", carries no meaning. Since we don't use bullets to "umpire" our "battles," all I can say is that, if I see you shoot at me, with clean LOS and no range issue, I will ALWAYS take that hit.

[rongee]

And so it goes. Hit taking. A subject of never ending discussion, argument, and accusations. There will never be a satisfactory solution. All we can do is do our best.

[mayo]

If you are hiding behind a leaf, please remember that there is a difference between hard cover and concealment. Bullets can go through concealment. So unless you have a Kevlar tumbleweed to hide behind, it is not going to protect you. All of us need to remember this, and to realize that we do this because it's fun. There is no need to get upset because someone who is clueless will not take a hit. If that happens, ignore the guy and keep going.

[teewalltrash]

Signs have always been a problem at events regardless of club in my experience. I don't see a real solution since you can't count on people volunteers to always be there. The other thing is visibility at night of signs. The beauty of a volunteer club is how much an individual member can do to fix such problems.
Volunteer to help at events. I found myself at one event being the Allied leader/event organizer with no more then a packet handed to me and the words "Can you handle this I have to go".

Hits
Engagements are difficult for a number of reasons.
The effects of firepower is number one. You can't kill wound or suppress your enemy/target. The system the U.S. Army used in the 1940s would not make people happy since it was leader driven. The REALTRAIN or SCOPES could work but without controllers observers both the above systems can't work.
With observers a happy medium IMHO could be worked out.
The happy medium being you are either suppressed, unsuppressed or dead. Now post Korea the U.S. Army came out with the three to ratio needed for a successful attack.
If one side could field three rifles to one, you would think they could at least suppress the target/objective.
The next problem is range, the tactics for infantry were based on long range fire, even the Red Army planned on their PPsH40 and 43 units to be able to engage at 300 meters with 7.62X25 ammo.
So now the problem comes up-"Man, I drove all this way to be suppressed all day, what gives?"


simon

[swede506]

How brave of billyyank to sign on as a guest and sling mud at the 101st. In WWII, they called that chicken$hit. Most folks on here will say "Axis" or "Allied" when leveling criticisms, but not billyyank. Guess he was bested by a 101st paratrooper one too many times.

I am a member of the 101 and was present at the scandalous incident brave billyyank describes. It was so obviously a gag. Even the way brave billyyank describes it sounds like a schoolyard prank. It's an admittedly immature gag we've pulled during resets or down time a couple of times within ear shot of Axis troops to poke fun at the absurdity of the whole "101st guys never take hits" phenomenon. Usually, both sides have a good laugh. As if an NCO is going to yell that out on the field. Hilarious comedy right there! It's not the fault of the 101st that brave billyyank was raised in a home where the level of comedy didn't evolve above fart jokes. Guess the art of satire is lost on folks like him.

I've been a member of the 101st for 15 years. A member of its Leadership for about 7. I've known all of our NCO's. There isn't one among them who would think to instruct his men to "not take a hit". If he did, he would have been drummed out. In fact, the opposite is true. We encourage hit taking for the sake of the event at times. I've been in a trench with one of our squads about to charge an Axis position. It's a scenario where guns will be firing, men are running and gunning and it will be impossible to tell who is shooting who. But the reality is that some of us would've be hit if it were the real deal. So before the charge, our NCO went down the line and assigned certain troopers with the task of taking a hit whether or not they thought it was "earned". This was done in order to preserve the authenticity of the encounter. This assigned "take a hit" happens frequently. Are there instances where a 101st member didn't take a hit for a variety of reasons? Of course, it happens. Is it unit policy? Nope.

The CHG is a great group. I've forged many good friendships with German reenactors. In fact, I'm having dinner with one tonite. We've had several Axis members come out with the 101 over the years as guests and it "seems" they've walked away with good impressions of our unit, and we were likewise impressed with them and had a great time. What I DO find curious is that a "guest" such as billyyank can log on to a private forum, cast dispersions at a specific unit of the membership and have that comment remain on the board for over 8 months......

I look forward to seeing you guys out in the field again soon. I'm a big guy, an easy target. I'll gladly take a hit in honor of brave little billyyank and all the other disenfranchised kids out there. Cheers!

Swede
101st AB Reenacted
Proud member of the CHG
Hit taker

[PRESIDENT]

I'm locking this thread.